so they go on the view, they go on letterman. they get a tax for that. but in fact, that's the only way to reach them. >> rose: they believe it humanizes them to do that. >> they do but they cannot get, it's very hard to exercise presidential leadership in the classic sense, in a culture that is so incredibly atomized. >> rose: david go ahead. >> i don't think i agree with that. if you look at what's happened over i would say over the last 30 or 40 years, this power has become centralized in washington. it's more insular and more centralized and a small number of people in the west wing that really control the administration. in congress it's certainly more centralized than the house, much more centralized than the speaker's office in the senate and much more centralized in the leadership. so i do think that if you got say obama and boehner or romney and reid together with a relatively small number of people, you could exercise some pretty serious presidential leadership even with all the other thing going on in the country we talked about. >> rose: tom